Note: This post does not include how to engineer because the MM constantly changes and I find that anything I write now can be obsolete within a few days.
I know its late and its been discussed to death now but being a long time engineer now, I feel that I need to have my input in the matter so that other engineers know what to retort. Anti-engineers are unlikely to be moved by my post anyway, so there is no need for me to re-iterate what they dislike and it will not change their delusion.
Read this post from reddit:
Engineering is the act of optimising one’s base to maximise your chances of winning, be it a real or an apparent advantage. It means that whenever you make a conscious decision to upgrade anything, you are engineering. If it does not provide an advantage, you would not have done it, simple as that. It also means that the only way
Maxing is a form of engineering because the user upgrades in a way to provide an apparent but not real advantage. If it is not advantageous to max out, why would people do it? Why do people suffer in their gaming lives to complete a TH level if it does nothing? People max because they think it gives them an advantage, simple as that, and it is why it is considered engineering.
The major misconception people have is that engineering means weak defenses and strong offenses whereas maxed bases are “balanced” which is blatantly untrue. This stems from the fact that SC calls engineered bases as “lopsided”. The funny thing is that they have never said maxed bases are “balanced”, it is just what anti-engineers say because it seems to make them feel better. The new engineered bases are balanced in terms of both offenses and defenses. They have everything underleveled but can hit harder and defend better. This is what happens when smart players upgrade and see the game as a spectrum instead of discrete blocks. Maxers draw arbitrary lines in terms of upgrades, whereas good engineers see the entire game as a spectrum.
Why do people engineer? And why can’t SC stop it? The main issue here is that there are always players who play-to-win or as SC calls it “win-at-all-costs” players. Anything sc does, players can adapt faster and there is no way to prevent it. If the best strategy is nerfed, then the second best strategy will take over and become the best. This is why nerfing rarely leads to the results that is needed. The only reason to nerf is when something is far too strong and nothing you do can balance it.
Players will always gravitate towards the strongest and best strategy, this is why maxing was adopted previously because it gave an advantage. However, it has slowly been removed and now people still preach that mantra. The funnier thing right now is that people demand that engineering be nerfed so that maxing becomes the dominant strategy.
All these reasons are why I strongly support engineering, not because I like the practice per se but because I always try to play to win. If I like the game and want to take it seriously, then I will surely do everything in my power to win. As my previous Playing to win, in clash post, I do not see morals or ethics when playing the game because it makes no sense to limit my strength. A win is a win, regardless of how I got it. An anti-engineer may say its a hollow victory, but I say that its not your business to say what I feel is fun.
There are no artificial lines on the sand for engineering, anything you do to maximise your chances of winning is engineering. If you kick players who do not attack, if you shun rushers from war, if you ask your clanmates to max heroes before upgrading TH or if you ask your clanmates to max certain troops (like drags,hogs or valks) before being able to join war; then you are engineering. I can even consider those things as people call it “roster engineering” as you are manicuring your lineup to make sure you match favourably against a weaker clan.
When you max heroes for war, what do you expect? Do you expect to match against someone who is exactly the same as you? That’s exceedingly rare because people rarely completely max out any given TH level and expecting that is foolish. Do you expect to match against a weaker TH9? Then you are engineering, simple as that. Do you expect to match against a new-mid TH10? Probably not otherwise you would have upgraded TH long ago. There is no way to go about it, maxing is done for an expected advantage which does not exist.
Every base brought into CWL is engineered, why? Because it is optimised for the given method of play. If you need to bring a TH9, people bring maxed TH9 and not mid TH9s, why? Because bringing anything lower harms the chances of you winning. That’s why I said CWL is cancerous (and why I was banned from the forums apparently), because it promotes a marginalized way of playing with its own set of rules. Just look at pokemon, the game evolves from generation to generation but the rules persist. There’s no harm in setting house rules like smogon or NDL, the problem comes when people want to enforce and shove the rules down to people who do not wish to play.
Some anti-engineers claim that engineering impacts casuals and their chances of winning. Or that their maxer clans are casual. So what? It is expected that casuals do not win as much as serious players, that is fact. SC is also trying their best to help such clans, weak clans who lose frequently are matched against easier and easier enemies until they are vastly stronger than their enemy. This also contributes to the anti-engineers rage because their enemies are vastly stronger after they win a few matches.
Anti-engineers (I highly doubt any has read this far) need to understand that people will always choose the path of least resistance and do anything to give themselves the upper hand. This is human nature and how we evolved, so there really isn’t anything you can do about it. A player can continue whining, or they can look into the mirror and admit that they could do better. For me, the choice is obvious
I like your definition of engineering: making upgrade decisions that are geared toward providing an advantage. Under this definition, maxing is a form of engineering, however, I think it’s important to consider it in its own category.
Maxing, I think, should’ve been a niche thing, but it became a standard (though not universally accepted, for good reason). In the competitive war scene, tiers and weights are taken into account (to make sure the clans aren’t grossly mismatched) to ensure that neither clan has an advantage over the other. However, not everybody is in the competitive war scene, so maxing is not something that is needed beyond this (in my opinion).
I see CWL as more like the major leagues, whereas random spins/war searches are more like the minor leagues. In professional leagues, there are certain regulations…take boxing. They have featherweight, welterweight, heavy weight, etc. It’s important for the competitors in these classes to be equally matched. In CWL, it is beneficial to be as maxed as possible in a given town hall level, but there are SOME variations (lowest TH9s may not have all lavas and 30/30, or consider the TH10 tier system, for examples). I respect competitive leagues for the very reason that I respect a real boxing match, or baseball playoffs, or the super bowl…in these matches, two teams (clans) are on as equal ground as possible, therefore testing each clan’s ability at crafting strategic 3-star (or high % 2-star) attacks. It’s fun to watch, and it’s fun to participate.
All of that said, I hear what you’re saying and agree, as 99+% of clashers out there aren’t in the competitive war scene. Indeed, it’s human nature to take the path of least resistance which provides the most success. In this regard, increasing your clan’s chances of a favorable matchup (one where chances of winning are as high as possible) is most ideal, if it means it’s also fun (I’m lumping “fun” in with “success”). So the question then becomes, “what makes this game fun to the player?” which can be answered by infinitely various responses.
For me personally, I believed in maxing. As you put it, “people still preach that mantra,” regarding maxing, and I hopped on board to that. I started playing the game, rushed to TH8 because I didn’t know what I was doing and I thought that was the coolest looking town hall, then realized I was far behind in everything (offense was where I was hurting the most). So I maxed my TH8 before proceeding and have been aboard the maxer route since. With my second account, I decided I’d have some fun with it and try a minimax variation (TH6 defenses+some AD’s, teslas, and traps). I wasn’t in an engineering clan, so I saw almost zero benefits to it, so I decided to max it out. My third account, however, was inspired by your guides, and is on the “strategic rushing” path.
Where I currently fall…my two “main” accounts will continue to participate in competitive wars, while my third account will continue on its path of strategic rushing. As you’ve said in many of your entries, this route is most efficient and is also a great way to play for casuals. I find myself having a lot of fun in the competitive war league, which has its per-requisite of maxing. But I’m having fun in a different way with my third, rushing account. Suffice it to say, there are multiple ways a single person can play the game with different ends that can be equally fun (though this is dependent on the person and what play styles they enjoy).
Anyhow, just wanted to share my bit. I love your guides and enjoy stopping in!
Fair input regarding CWL, I just think its hypocritical that CWL players expect a certain type of base but then say its unfair in regular wars demand a different type of base.
Thanks for your reply 🙂
SuperCell wants to promote Maxing, since it takes longer and you have to play more, and they think you will spend more gems maxing. But lets face it, a bunch of maxed out defence bases, up against a bunch of maxed for war offensive bases with weak defences, now have a distinct disadvantage. This is the real reason why the maxers are complaining, they are losing in war. I left a maxed defence/poor offence clan since I was tired of losing in war. I am now with a clan that has made many engineered war bases, and we always have a shot at winning now. (Even with my weak sauce offence, lol)
Does it? I never seen anything in SC’s website, forum, representatives that say they want to promote maxing. I’ve only seen SC say that every playstyle should be valid, doesn’t mean that maxing is encouraged. The only people who encouraged maxing initially were dumb youtubers, but their words some how stick despite being 5 years old advice